Five Points Tavern: Chef Jeffrey Forrest Comes Full Circle

How did you get started in food service?

I’ve been doing this for 37 years and have moved around quite a bit. My first job was at Luigi’s Pizza, over on University Boulevard, as a dishwasher. When I turned 17 I joined the Marines with an open contract. They made me a cook, and I hated it, mostly because it’s military food. But I had no interest in cooking prior to that. I wanted to be a computer programmer, or something like that. I eventually got out of being a cook and was in marine reconnaissance for about 3 years. When I got out of the service, I didn’t really have a lot of skills, other than cooking. I applied and got accepted to Johnson and Wales in Rhode Island, and really hated it! So I just went out and found a job, the first of many that helped me get to where I am today.

Where did you learn your skills after leaving school?

While at my first job in Sea Conch, Mass., I met a guy, who was a sous chef at another restaurant, completing a stage (working for free as an intern) in the pastry department where I was working. I did that in the kitchen where he worked. After a series of chefs left that restaurant, I was the next guy in line and got the job as chef – and I really had no business being chef! But I was a fast learner and I had leadership skills after being in the military. I was there for two years.

At one of the first restaurants I worked in, we created 12 daily specials, in addition to our regular menu. So every morning I would run down to the bookstore and look in food magazines for the names of recipes. Not the actual recipes, just the names. I would see the combinations of foods in the recipes and I figured those ingredients worked together, so I would go back and make food with those combinations. That’s really how I learned to cook. While at that restaurant, I went to cooking school to receive formal training.After finishing up a second stint with the military during the Gulf War, I moved to New York, where I got a job as a bike messenger. That’s where I learned about trailing. I would finish a shift as a messenger, and then, with my knife bag in my backpack, I would knock on the back door of restaurants and ask if I could work there that night. I did that at multiple places until I landed another job. I moved around a lot, learning something at each place. At an Italian restaurant up there I learned how to make pasta. In fact I still make one of the dishes I learned there – tagliatelle with lamb ragu.

What led to your move back to Jacksonville to start your own concept?

After working as a personal chef for about four years, I got a call from Tom Gray (chef-owner of Moxie) who was my roommate in New York. He had been the corporate chef at The Loop, before moving out to California. The Loop was looking for a new chef, and Tom recommended me. So I moved back to Jacksonville the first time for that job. There I learned a lot about the business side of running a restaurant, but it wasn’t a good fit for me.

Another opportunity came along, and it was at a new restaurant, Stella’s Piano Café, that was located in this same building that I’m in now. After that, my next venture was a wine shop and restaurant where Orsay is now.

How did you settle on Five Points for the location?

I bounced around a bit more, spending time in western North Carolina and then back to Manhattan.  I got really tired of the gritty city life, went to the Caribbean for two years, and then, before starting a job running a ranch in West Texas, I came back to Jacksonville. We decided to stay so I started looking for a restaurant to buy. And serendipity, this place opened up. I jumped on this location as soon as I saw it listed.

How has the culinary landscape changed since you left?

Customers are more open to trying new things, to a certain degree. But the glut of restaurants has made it so the pool of employees has become so small. We run ads for openings in the kitchen all the time and nobody comes. We’re paying $12-$13 an hour, higher than minimum wage, but the level of work does not always deserve more than the minimum wage. It’s incredibly difficult to staff our kitchen with the caliber of talent that we need. It’s frustrating.

One thing I really miss? People used to come to a restaurant to have the food the chef is preparing. I can’t go through a night where 25% of my orders are not special. Most of it is not dietary driven. The difference is that people used to go out dining. Now they go out to eat, because people are not cooking at home. Their expectation is that we as a restaurant will cater to their every whim, as if they were cooking dinner for themselves at home. What they don’t understand is a restaurant kitchen is an assembly line. We’re here all day, starting early in the morning getting ready to open at 5, and when we start cooking, it’s a ballet, a dance. When you say “I need this instead of that,” not only does it you’re your dinner down, it slows everyone’s dinner down. Nobody wants to say no, because what happens if you say no? There’s your negative review on Yelp or social media.  We try really hard to satisfy our clientele, but it can be frustrating.

How often does your menu change?

Right after we started Five Points, quite a few restaurants also opened, with very similar menus. So I have been reworking the menu, moving away from the Southern-influenced dishes towards Indian and North African inspired offerings, still with the European and French technique but with a completely different palate of flavors, as a way to differentiate us. I have a voluminous library at home and I love to go back to my cookbooks from the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s because I see things that people have forgotten about, and that’s one way I like to influence my menu.

Our menu has been evolving since we opened. When we first opened, we started with dishes that I can make with my eyes closed or if the whole staff walked out, along with favorites like the lamb ragu. We thought the clientele would be different, hip, urban 5 Points crowd. Our customers are more interested in a more elegant experience rather than have soups, salads or sandwiches and then get out. The menu is always seasonally based, and we source locally when we can. It can be challenging though, if the supply is not consistent enough or the cost is so prohibitive.

What’s your favorite ingredient to cook with or to eat?

That’s hard, they change so much. I have four items I put in almost everything: salt, pepper, thyme and duck fat. Thyme, for me, is like salt and pepper, a subtle flavor that adds a depth to a dish that you don’t realize is there. And to eat? I love fish. My dream is to one day open a restaurant that just serves fish.

Ready to sample Chef Jeffrey's culinary talents? Stop by Five Points Tavern, 1521 Margaret St., Jacksonville, for dinner Wednesday-Sunday or brunch Saturday-Sunday.